FOSSkriti: sahana-classroom.log

<ajuonline|mibbit> here we have newbies
<ajuonline|mibbit> and the one who are familiar
<ajuonline|mibbit> giving them to you
<ajuonline|mibbit> so you can take them into hacking
<flavour> ok :)
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<user_6> where to get resourses
<user_6> where to get resources to learn python from!
<ajuonline|mibbit> user_6: hang on
<user_6> ok
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<ajuonline|mibbit> user_6: google for "www.python.org" documentation.
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<user_14anupam> no clues
<vibkar12> same here
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<user_14anupam> never used linux or python earlier
<flavour> no clues on?
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<flavour> I wouln't owrry too much about not knowibg Python
<flavour> Start wih copy/pasting & trying stuff out
<flavour> The best resource for learning Python is: http://diveintopython.org/
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<chamindra> Feel free to ask questions..
<flavour> However that assumes you know how to program already & just want to convert to Python
<chamindra> there are many ways to work on the project
<flavour> If you need something more gentle try: http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
<chamindra> you do not have to be able to code python only
<flavour> These links are here: https://trac.sahanapy.org/wiki/DeveloperGuidelines
<ajuonline|mibbit> flavour: i will try handle the people in here.
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<ajuonline|mibbit> and we are addressing them inperson
<ajuonline|mibbit> at their PCs
<chamindra> great AJ
<ajuonline|mibbit> flavour: add the channel to the topic #sahana-classroom
<user_6> i know to programm in PHP, will it help ??
<ajuonline|mibbit> user_6: yes it will.
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<chamindra> yes you can help on the current version of Sahana
<user_6> are the languages similar??
<chamindra> it is based on PHP
<user_6> and in what context??
<flavour> user_6: You can either learn Python (not so hard to switch) or else work on the PHP codebase of Sahana
<chamindra> yes if you want to work on the PHP codebase I can point you to that as well
<chamindra> it is up to you.. what you are more interested it
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<user_6> ok plz
<flavour> user_6: Here is guidance on moving from PHP to Web2Py: http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/AlterEgo/default/show/106
<flavour> Note that Web2Py makes Python easy
<flavour> You need to know very little Python to get quite far
<user_35> ok
<user4> ok
<user_6> it might seem silly but, i wan to know what exactly "web2py" stands for :)
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<flavour> user_6: 2 options, your choice ;)
<user4> please give us the  brief idea of python
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<user_6> is it a merely a conversion of the web project to python ?
<flavour> 'Web2.0 in Python' or 'Web UI to write Python'
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<user_2> i have opened the or.py 
<user_2> file 
<user_2> now what to do
<flavour> Web2Py is a web-development framework written in Python which produces Python code via a WebUI
<flavour> user_2: What are you trying to do?
<user_6> @flavour ok thanks
<chamindra> And if you want to work in PHP firest you can download the current PHP codebase from here .. http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=127855&package_id=169330
<flavour> user4: http://diveintopython.org/ & http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
<user_2> what should i really change in it
<flavour> user_2: What are you trying to do?
<vibkar12> we have entered in or.py ..now wht to do /...
<user8> wht is irc?
<user4> what is python???
<zakir> user irc is internet relay chat 
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<chamindra> IRC is what you are using now.. Internet Relay Chat
<user_3> now what to do??
<chamindra> it is basically a chat room system
<chamindra> used commonly for Open Source projects
<chamindra> Python is a popular open source programming language
<chamindra> It is a scripting language, which is compiled on execution
<user4> just like any other high level programming language like c ,c++,java
<zakir> user4:  sort of but cheilfy used for web 
<chamindra> slightly different as it is a scripting language
<chamindra> that means you do not have to compile it before you run it
<chamindra> Java and C++ you have to compile and run
<chamindra> Phython is dynamic and very easy to learn
<user4> ok it gives the answer directly
<chamindra> you can even dynamically explore objects in the python IDE
<user4> and how the errors are resolved
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<chamindra> When for one you do not have to do a lot of the housework like in C++ and Java (e.g. memory management, taking care of lose pointers, etc)
<chamindra> all that is handled for you in the language
<chamindra> and the language is very simple and intuative
<chamindra> you have an exception handling mechanism in the language
<chamindra> it also has try and catch blocks like Java
<chamindra> Phyton is very very popular in the open source world
<user4> what is handling mechanism??
<chamindra> lot of Ubuntu development is done in it
<chamindra> no sure exactly how the VM works, but I will find out
<user4> ok
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<user4> basically what is python used for??
<user_3> can we go now??\
<zakir> user_3  if you want to 
<chamindra> It can be used for multiple things
<user4> like
<user4> be specific??
<chamindra> Desktop application programming, Web applciation development, shell scripting
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<user4> ok
<chamindra> Web2Py is a web application development framework for python
<chamindra> it permits rapid application development
<user9> can i get the list of linux commands
<chamindra> using CRUD principles
<user4> what are CRUD principles
<chamindra> you mean shell commands
<user8> why python should be used why not we use java ?...
<chamindra> well they are the typical things in a standard you do in a web application
<chamindra> Create Read Update and Delete
<user8> but both r open source 
<flavour> user8: Java is much higher entry barrier so less suitable for rapid applicztion development - which is needed in the HFOSS realm
<flavour> user8: If you prefer to use Java feel free
<chamindra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete
<chamindra> Java is also good
<flavour> Jython provides a bridge between the 2
<flavour> https://trac.sahanapy.org/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestionsPython
<flavour> This explains my own thinking about why we chose Python not Java for Sahana
<flavour> Java would be more suitable for other problems
<chamindra> but it is easier to work and develop applications rapidly in Python in my opinion
<user4> the basic works like creating ,editing are CRUD principles
<flavour> But not for this problem
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<user4> then??
<user4> what are CRUD principles??
<user8> Is there any training provide for sahana 
<chamindra> If you are interested in Java, then think of a J2ME component for a mobile phone to communicate with Sahana
<chamindra> that would be a cool application for the field
<chamindra> Create, read, update and delete (CRUD) are the four basic functions of persistent storage,[1] a major part of nearly all computer software. 
<chamindra> Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete
<user4> ok..got it
<chamindra> Well actually I am preparing a 4 day workshop on Sahana right now.. I will be conducting it in the Philippines from next week
<user4> how python works??
<chamindra> I can make this course available freely online later
<chamindra> just keep in touch on the Sahana mailing lists
<user4> what are the syntaxes used for CRUD??
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<user4> what is sahana
<gift> what's the meaning of dynamically typed
<user8> can we develop using python some vision based applications like 3d graphices & lots more 
<zakir> user4:  sahana is a open source disaster management tool 
<chamindra> If you compare it to SQL Operation SQL   Create INSERT   Read (Retrieve) SELECT   Update UPDATE   Delete (Destroy) DELETE
<user_3> why only python is used
<zakir> user4:  google for sahana
<user8> ok fine .... 
<chamindra> Sahana is a Free and Open SOurce diaster management application
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<chamindra> it has been used to help coordination efforts in disasters like the Asian Tsunami, Khasmir Earthquake, Philippines mudslides, and recently in Bihar China
<user4> how does it helps in disaster management??
<user_2> can some one please tell me the command again to 
<chamindra> Actually right now Sahana is based on PHP
<zakir> user_3 python is being used because python is more powerful web development programming language
<user_2> how to start the server
<flavour> user4: Were you sleeping during the presentation that Ajay gave?
<chamindra> we are thinking of moving to Python for th enext generation
<flavour> user4: http://trac.sahanapy.org/Sahana_at_FOSSkriti_2009.pdf
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 user4 user8 user9 user_10 user_2 user_3 user_35 user_6 user_7 
<flavour> user_3: Not 'only Python' people write in PHP, J2ME, JavaScript
<zakir> user2 use ssh 2@172.27.20.153
<zakir> and password is guest 
<chamindra> But please feel free to ask more questions.. I am happy to answer even general ones
<flavour> user_3: If you wish to write in Ruby, perl or Java,  go ahead :)
<zakir> flavour:  some people directly came for the hacfest
<flavour> Then accept the fact that this hackfest is about Python/JavaScript
<chamindra> but one advantage of sticking to one language like Python or PHP is that you can keep the code base small and run it like a portable app from the USB stick
<chamindra> right now Sahana will run as a portable application from USB as well
<flavour> This is a very important deployment mechanism
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<lut4rp> hippieindamakin8: hello n00b.
<lut4rp> :P
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<ajuonline|mibbit> lut4rp: people who know Python, should start hacking *now*
<lut4rp> bleh.
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<lifeeth> noob left
<bootstrap_loader> Lmao!
<user4> wat is HFOSS??
<ajuonline|mibbit> user4 - Humanitarian FOSS., i did a talk today on it.
<ajuonline|mibbit> user4: wait let me uplload the slides for you. rigtht now. 
<user_2> how to add a module
<user_6> @chamindra : i got the zip file of the sahana project from the source forge site. it says that is it has to be installed first. so whats the php work in that?? do i have to install it first before starting to contribute to the php part of that?? plz remove the confusion :(
<ajuonline|mibbit> user_2: https://trac.sahanapy.org/wiki/DeveloperGuidelinesNewModule
<ankush_25>  is pythan is just lik c                                                                                                                         
<chamindra> ok be patient I will help you install it 
<lifeeth> user_6, no, sahana is already there on your system
<user_3> what is irc??
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<user_6> i mean to say that i am currently not on my personal computer. i m in the lab
<lifeeth> user_6, the only thing you have to do is work on the code
<flavour> user_3: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irc
<user_6> if i wish to edit it later what shall i do!
<flavour> You're using IRC already...
<flavour> user_6: you want to take a copy of your work today home with you?
<chamindra> I think user_6 wants to check out the PHP code.. so let him do that also
<flavour> Do a bzr pull later
<flavour> Make a note of the URL
<flavour> I will leave it up until next weekend
<flavour> Ah
<user4> can u pls give me a brief idea
<flavour> That'll always be there
<ajuonline|mibbit> user4: brief idea about?
<zakir> user_6:  sahana.lk will always be there
<user_6> may be i would like to study it more even after the workshop is over
<user_6> ok
<user4> HFOSS
<zakir> go there and start learn how to code for it and use it 
<zakir> user6 sure 
<flavour> user4: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hfoss
<chamindra> For those who want to know about H-FOSS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian-FOSS
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<lifeeth> user_35, IRC (internet relay protocol)
<user_3> what is irc??
<lifeeth> user_3,^^
<lifeeth> blah
<lifeeth> internet relay CHAT
<chamindra> IRC is basically like a popular chatroom system for open source projects
<flavour> Used by more than just opensource projects ;)
<chamindra> it is _the_ original chatroom before yahoo and the rest came on the scene :-)
<flavour> But a lot by them certainly
<flavour> Well, BBS is more original than that ;)
<chamindra> I guess :-)
<flavour> & MOOs came before IRC even on Internet, I think
<chamindra> and MUDs :-)
<flavour> Right...
<flavour> Anyway, off-topic, sorry ;)
<chamindra> more questions anyone ?? Please feel free to ask anything you might want a clarification on  
<user_3> zen internet??
<chamindra> for those who were interested in checking out and installing the PHP version of Sahana http://wiki.sahana.lk/doku.php?id=doc:nwhome
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<chamindra> the PHP demo can be found at http://demo.sahana.lk .. This is the current release of Sahana
<user4> pls tel somethng abt webpy
<user9> ok
<zakir> peopl do check out the deimo .. it will give you a clear idea on what sahana does
<user9> now
<user8> using sahana how can we tracking people in disaster 
<user9> we r leaving
<zakir> user4:  web2py is a framwork based  on python 
<zakir> for more GOOGLE
<chamindra> ok so Sahana what 3 different modules to track people
<flavour> Web2Py: http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/
<user4> what for it is used??
<chamindra> missing person registry module is for finding missing people, relatives by their description and appearance
<chamindra> Disaster victim registry module is for tracking displaced families, mainly by the head of the familiy (i.e camp they are located in, what help they have been provided)
<user8> ok sir thank a lots i m leaving now .... Its nice talking 2 ur sahana team
<user8> bye all
<chamindra> and lastly Volunteer management module is for helping to track all the people responding to the disaster (aid workers, government agents, volunteers)
<user_2> user8 bye
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<user4> wat are 3 different modules?
<chamindra> In sahana each sub-application is a module
<user4> modules used for tracking people??
<chamindra> you can plugin the modules you want to use based on the disaster
<zakir> user4 yes 
<zakir> thats one module
<zakir> you have diff modules for diff tasks
<chamindra> the three modules are missing person module, disaster victim module and volunteer management module
<chamindra> when you look at demo.sahana.lk you will understand this
<chamindra> Each module has a seperate menu item 
<zakir> user4:  you can check out demo.sahana.lk 
<user4> basically what is volunteer management??
<user8> ok 1 last q ? can u taught !about main modules files & form handlers 
<chamindra> well there are a lot of volunteers that want to help out during a disaster
<chamindra> to help manage all their effort we have the volunteer management module
<user_35> wat does the incident dropdown is supposed to indicate?
<chamindra> basically it tracks peoples skills (e.g. medical, ) , their contact information and what projects they are working on 
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<chamindra> During a disaster there are sometimes multiple incidents
<chamindra> for example during a earthquake
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<chamindra> you can have a fire in a certain area .. and a building collapes in another
<chamindra> each of these are seperate sub-disasters
<chamindra> and we call them incidents
<user_35> alrite
<chamindra> this is not just in Sahana but the terminology emergency services use
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<bootstrap_loader> I'm still now able to add the new module. :D
<user_35> who is seamus quinn
<bootstrap_loader> Any step by step guide for dummies?
<flavour> bootstrap_loader: The Wiki is supposed to be that...feel free to edit it to make it better ;)
<flavour> What exactly did you do?
<flavour> What kidn of mocule are you adding?
<bootstrap_loader> In the wiki, its written, add module to db.module
<bootstrap_loader> I altered the url to mine http://172.27.20.153:8076/sahana/appadmin/select/db?query=db.module.id%3E0
<bootstrap_loader> Now, at each step, its saying invalid query and invalid request.
<bootstrap_loader> :(
<flavour> So which module?
<flavour> If you're writing a vhecile management module then use 'veh'
<flavour> Start by creating a file models/veh.py
<bootstrap_loader> Ah, thanks.. I got it!
<flavour> ok, I think that URL link is old...let me see what it should be updated to
<flavour> http://127.0.0.1:8000/sahana/appadmin/select/db?query=db.s3_module.id%3E0
<flavour> Apologies
<user_7> Kannel?????????
<flavour> It's now db.s3_module
<ajuonline|mibbit> user_7: please google for "Kannel"
<flavour> user_7: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kannel
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<flavour> Wiki updated for the correct URL: thanks for the bug report :)
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<nickki> hey
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<nickki> j
<chamindra> Hi
<chamindra> this is Sahana and Open Source 101 :-)
<chamindra> if you have any questions feel free to ask 
<zakir> chamindra: :)
<bootstrap_loader> flavour, when I tried to create a new module or s3 table, this ticket is issued
<bootstrap_loader> Ticket issued: sahana/172.31.76.254.2009-02-14.23-34-18.ecd3f1e4-a36b-4bd1-9d8a-7f8dd83b8348
<bootstrap_loader> of*
<flavour> So you added a new row to the db.s3_module table?
<flavour> & immediately it ticketd?
<flavour> & you can't see the ticket contents (due to some weirdness about the setup there which we can't yet fathom)
<flavour> or was this after creating a new file in models?
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<flavour> hmm, I get one after adding there too
<flavour> I usually add to the model straight (i.e. into the startup in models/__db.py)
<flavour> & then delete my database & allow it to get recreated
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<flavour> This is the ticket I get:
<flavour> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/103990/
<bootstrap_loader> flavour, Okays, let me try that..
<flavour> Although that ticket is a 1-time
<flavour> The data wasn't added
<flavour> & nothing broken
<flavour> But yes, best to edit it in code for long-term
<flavour> # Populate table with Default modules
<flavour> if not len(db().select(db[table].ALL)):
<flavour> etc
<bootstrap_loader> flavour, I think theres a problem with the server I'm using.. The IITk server.
<nickki> ok flavouR tell me from where to delete tnhe database and give the commmand to recreate it
<user_35> away
<nickki> r u ther /
<nickki> ?
<flavour> delete all files in the databases folder
<flavour> (You'll need to have Web2Py instance stopped for that)
<flavour> Then simply restart the server
<flavour> The 1 problem I know of with the IITK setup is that you can't view tickets
<flavour> THius is quite a huge error
<flavour> As otherwise *very* diffciullt to debug the programs
<flavour> Would be much better to have verything local on each PC :/
<flavour> Well, easier for Web2Py
<flavour> I don't know about the other stuff
<zakir> flavour:  yes :(  but we neeld to have root on every lab pc 
<flavour> That's not possible?
<user_35> n=F
<flavour> Re-image them afterwards
<nickki> its M=F
<bootstrap_loader> Working on it..
<nickki> the error is still there dude
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<chamindra> ok it is time for me to go to bed now.. All the best for the session :-) bfn
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<nickki> bye flavour
<nickki> hope u could have given me a solution
<flavour> CU - we should have spent hours testing out this lab config
<flavour> Unfortunately it's really tripped us up :/
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